A Worldview Apart Podcast (2018)

ASystems Thinking, Gift Economies, Agonizing over Debt, and Investigating the Roots of the Stories We Tell Ourselves, with Charles Eisenstein

In this episode Charles talks about systems thinking, societal collapse, investigating the roots of the stories we tell ourselves, living in the gift economy, and about being trapped beneath debt, among other things.

 

Comments

  1. Wonderful ideas Charles. I love how you say without equivocation things I’ve wondered and thought about. I agree, there is nothing to stand on. The decay is throughout all aspects churches, academia, etc. And that in order to make a living most people need to go into debt with school, then let go of their dreams and ideals in order to pay the loans, thereby perpetuating the system.

    I’m not saying I understand all your frameworks. When I first heard of your ideas of a gift economy, while I was with a wonderful permaculture group, I thought it wasn’t possible, none of the old communes worked. I was with them for a while and we shared a lot and it was fun and very satisfying. I saw it didn’t have to be all one way or the other. I could share way more and live way more in community quite easily.

    I was later working at my profession and working on a sliding scale at the person’s request. I then saw the person had a good amount of money, and was paying less than my usual rate and what was very low for the profession. It felt right to ask for more and I did. You mentioned the interviewer had no choice but to take out loans. I agree with your systems view of acedemia and found it quite clear. And I think it would be vulnerable to share as much as you do and and stand so far out from the usual stories. So I say this with respect, it’s more of a personal question but this is the channel I have access to. Saying he has no choice sounded disempowering. I wondered what your shadow side is with money? I ask this because I’ve asked this of myself. It’s clear the old way isn’t working and again I appreciate how you don’t equivocate about the destruction of the planet. I see it as a clear assessment of the situation. I left something that was more lucrative to follow a passion and something that’s extremely healing for me, and for others. After leaving main stream society I found your work. I’m ready for a totally new way. I’m thinking this out as I’m writing it (and on my phone so it’s less edited). I need a group where I can talk openly about choices and what might be shadow and what might be the new emerging way to live. It’s too complex to figure out alone. Hearing your work is very helpful but your one voice, as a human you have your own things your working on, and the channel is mostly one way, receiving messages.

    There are 12 step programs, underearners anonymous and debters anonymous that help people with money. They can help people go back to school without debting. I saw you did an interview with Bill Kauth who started the Mankind Project, they have self-run men’s groups.

    I would love some kind of new group that has at it’s core the things you talk about, the most important things are free, being of service, love for the Earth, opening to a new story. There is no one path and we’ll all find what feels right for ourselves. And it’s too complex to do alone and we don’t have to. A group could share ideas and best practices, including many groups sharing with each other, these groups could be defined and structured enough to have a clear purpose, and open enough so people can find their own way. It’s like the difference between one person designing a town, or a team of people connected to others all over the world designing a town.

    I met Bill Kauth and really like the guy. He creates intensive life changing weekends, I know I went through it. How about a weekend similarly designed for the model of the new economy? Modeled after how MKP does men’s groups. It could be run by the community. My sense from what I’ve heard is you veer from structure. I understand that. Everything changes all the time.

    That said, I’d love some kind of group around this. It’s what I do for a living and have a lot of experience with MKP. I’d be happy to explore this further if you have any interest. I believe it would speed this process. It’s moving too slowly for me as I try to live a whole new way without others to learn with. I’ve seen things flow easier with groups.. Ands it’s yin and yang. The old way is formula and answers on demand and figuring it out. That said it doesn’t mean that order can’t naturally arise from the chaos.

    Thanks for everything. Let me know if you or your staff have any thoughts or ideas around this.

  2. Wonderful ideas Charles. I love how you say without equivocation things I’ve wondered and thought about. I agree, there is nothing to stand on. The decay is throughout all aspects churches, academia, etc. And that in order to make a living most people need to go into debt with school, then let go of their dreams and ideals in order to pay the loans, thereby perpetuating the system.

    I’m not saying I understand all your frameworks. When I first heard of your ideas of a gift economy, while I was with a wonderful permaculture group, I thought it wasn’t possible, none of the old communes worked. I was with them for a while and we shared a lot and it was fun and very satisfying. I saw it didn’t have to be all one way or the other. I could share way more and live way more in community quite easily.

    I was later working at my profession and working on a sliding scale at the person’s request. I then saw the person had a good amount of money, and was paying less than my usual rate and what was very low for the profession. It felt right to ask for more and I did. You mentioned the interviewer had no choice but to take out loans. I agree with your systems view of acedemia and found it quite clear. And I think it would be vulnerable to share as much as you do and and stand so far out from the usual stories. So I say this with respect, it’s more of a personal question but this is the channel I have access to. Saying he has no choice sounded disempowering. I wondered what your shadow side is with money? I ask this because I’ve asked this of myself. It’s clear the old way isn’t working and again I appreciate how you don’t equivocate about the destruction of the planet. I see it as a clear assessment of the situation. I left something that was more lucrative to follow a passion and something that’s extremely healing for me, and for others. After leaving main stream society I found your work. I’m ready for a totally new way. I’m thinking this out as I’m writing it (and on my phone so it’s less edited). I need a group where I can talk openly about choices and what might be shadow and what might be the new emerging way to live. It’s too complex to figure out alone. Hearing your work is helpful but your one voice, as a human you have your own things your working on, and the channel is mostly one way, receiving messages.

    There are 12 step programs, underearners anonymous and debters anonymous that help people with money. They can help people go back to school without debting. I saw you did an interview with Bill Kauth who started the Mankind Project, they have self-run men’s groups.

    I would love some kind of new group that has at it’s core the things you talk about, the most important things are free, being of service, love for the Earth, opening to a new story. There is no one path and we’ll all find what feels right for ourselves. And it’s too complex to do alone and we don’t have to. A group could share ideas and best practices, including many groups sharing with each other, these groups could be defined and structured enough to have a clear purpose, and open enough so people can find their own way.

    I met Bill Kauth and really like the guy. He creates intensive life changing weekends, I know I went through it. How about a weekend similarly designed for money? Modeled after how MKP has a weekend then self-run groups. It could be run by the community. My sense from what I’ve heard is you veer from structure. I understand that. Everything changes all the time.

    That said, I’d love some kind of group around this. It’s what I do for a living and have a lot of experience with MKP. I’d be happy to explore this further if you have any interest. I believe it would speed this process. It’s moving too slowly for me as I try to live a whole new way without others to learn with. I’ve seen things flow easier with groups. Ands it’s yin and yang. The old way is answers on demand and figuring it out. That said it doesn’t mean that order can’t naturally arise from the chaos.

    Thanks for everything. Let me know if you or your staff have any thoughts or ideas around this.

Leave a Reply